tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post2318677312930461111..comments2024-01-09T21:43:06.916-05:00Comments on Esq. Never: "The Talk" and Why Law Schools Will Never Have ItEsq. Neverhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18248019550876835145noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-46576557087236454662009-12-15T19:46:18.183-05:002009-12-15T19:46:18.183-05:00I hear you, friend. I too thought the PhD was a fo...I hear you, friend. I too thought the PhD was a fool's errand while law was the path to success. Alas, both us now sit in our parents homes, the recipients of an expensive lesson.Esq. Neverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18248019550876835145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-16525162853056568522009-12-15T00:18:12.844-05:002009-12-15T00:18:12.844-05:00Wow, now I'm depressed. Of course, I should l...Wow, now I'm depressed. Of course, I should look at this as a good thing--I'm not alone. I went to law school instead of pursuing a Ph.D. under the misguided idea that the law was more of a "sure bet" than academia. I could not have been more wrong. At least if I had went for the academic doctorate I could have extended the carefree years of living on borrowed money for a bit longer before facing the harsh reality of being unemployed and, apparently, unemployable. <br /><br />And, just in case you need another example for future posts: top 15% grad of a Tier 2 Midwestern state school (top 10% when BigLaw came for OCI), Law Review editorial board, etc., and here I sit with a shiny new (never used) bar card in my wallet, a framed J.D. diploma still in the cardboard box, surfing the internet from my mother's living room. Yeah, life is great.Hadrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04775871226041599433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-77701835439208469912009-12-12T16:14:12.570-05:002009-12-12T16:14:12.570-05:00JJ, thanks for the comment. I'm very glad to h...JJ, thanks for the comment. I'm very glad to hear that I helped convince one prospective student to stay away and not throw his life down the drain.<br /><br />It's surprising to be described as "artistic" because, that's usually not how I'd be described. Maybe my blog just brings out my creative side. :)<br /><br />Anyway, good luck with med school, but be careful. While the doctors probably have more security than lawyers, there does seem to be some angst in that field as well. Post a comment on JD Underground about it - I think there are a few disgruntled med school grads who can give you an alternative view.Esq. Neverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18248019550876835145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-57296663249391750242009-12-12T14:56:49.978-05:002009-12-12T14:56:49.978-05:00I read your response to the comment about your &qu...I read your response to the comment about your "artistic side" and I have to agree now that in reading your blogs, you seem seem very creative and artsy-fartsy like me! Your blog is invaluable and I have helped talk my own brother out of law school. I am 25 yo going to take the MCAT in May and thought my dream was to be a lawyer. I feel your pain--it is only by serendipity that I was hugely turned off by the law profession at the last minute of my senior year (undergrad in Finance). Anyways, keep posting! You have already saved 1 person from law school (my younger brother) so just trust that there are people out there listening. Take care and I hope you have options to fall back on.제제 Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07399844166599914845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-91892657328231264692009-12-12T12:50:32.796-05:002009-12-12T12:50:32.796-05:00Here's hoping that the private loans I have fr...Here's hoping that the private loans I have from my law school misadventure will be dischargable in bankruptcy in the not so distant future.<br /><br />Honor system my ass. Thre's no way you're ever going to get accurate statistical data on career outcomes from the schools. The stats are based on anecdotal evidence and self-selecting pools of grads that choose to report their salary data. <br /><br />The only way to ever improve law schools from the students' perspective is to subject them to market forces through exposure to bankruptcy law. <br /><br />I predict that within a few years we will see this come to pass. Law schools are too arrogant to lower tuition in recognition of the recession. There will always be some suckers willing to sign up for the indentures. Eventually, the system will collapse under its own weight when the private loans are found to be largely uncollectable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-46503639211754949082009-12-12T10:49:01.399-05:002009-12-12T10:49:01.399-05:00So, is "Chief" the Temple or Northeaster...So, is "Chief" the Temple or Northeastern Dean? Thanks for checking in. <br /><br />I did not expect $160k at graduation, and I do not currently want to be an attorney. I went to law school because virtually all resources (including the law schools themselves) informed me that it was a path to a stable, decent paying career. This claim is untrue.<br /><br />If I was the only person in this situation, your response might be fair. As I noted, many other people with far better credentials are in similar or worse positions. <br /><br />Your claim that I (or others) could simply find a job if only we'd stop "whining" is nonsense. The number of lawyers (even from good schools) that are unemployed, overqualified, or barely scraping by in document review right now is staggering. <br /><br />Even in good times, there are loads of students from tier 1 and tier 2 schools stuck in dead end legal jobs who have difficulty finding jobs in other industries.<br /><br />I am currently taking measures (as I've chronicled on this blog) to make myself marketable in other industries. I do believe that with effort, I will be successful. Part of this blog's purpose is to be instructive rather than just critical.<br /><br />That said, I don't see why my solution isn't a reasonable one. Recall, law schools bill themselves as non-proft institutions of higher learning. If they have no qualms about inviting more students than can possibly find good jobs to join their school every year, I don't see why such august insitutions can't bother letting their students (or at the very least the worst students) know that their degrees may not be as helpful as they think. There was a time when law school would actually flunk out people who weren't successful. <br /><br />Finally, while you may so artfully denounce me as a "cry baby" (touche), I'm afraid I do have a right to be critical. You see, I spent three years of my life and went into six figures of debt under the assumption that I would at least have some modest improvement in my career options. As I've written about before, that is not true for me or for many of my contemporaries.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for checking in, Dean. I'm glad you could spare a moment of your time at 3 AM to share your thoughts. You must really have to burn the midnight oil to think up new ways to induce next year's class of lemmings to come...nay, to have to have the privilege of attending your fine insitution of higher learning.Esq. Neverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18248019550876835145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-35420660814315425062009-12-12T10:22:43.502-05:002009-12-12T10:22:43.502-05:00Chief, Why are lawyers so literal? You are a com...Chief, Why are lawyers so literal? You are a complete moron for taking this at face value. One day, you'll trip on life and no one will be there to pick you up. Esq. Never doesn't want to be an attorney... and I am happy he's exercising his artistic side. You're a doofus.Angelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07820446523257638689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-38375864019051591162009-12-12T03:24:09.952-05:002009-12-12T03:24:09.952-05:00Law schools are going to encourage their fee-payer...Law schools are going to encourage their fee-payers to go away?<br /><br />GET. A. FUCKING. CLUE.<br /><br />You think someone coming last in the class doesn't already know he's not going to become Barack Obama?<br /><br />SEE ABOVE<br /><br />WAH WAH WAH I made moot court at a school nobody's heard of now GIMME MY 160K and if I don't get it this second I'm going to hold my breath until a new career emerges for me!<br /><br />If you spent half the time that you did MAKING CARTOONS on actually finding a solution, then you would have a job in the industry or a new job somewhere else by now.<br /><br />Nobody said this world was easy, CRY BABY.chiefnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-31994473746965149102009-12-11T23:05:04.067-05:002009-12-11T23:05:04.067-05:00Wow! Congrats man! http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/Pu...Wow! Congrats man! http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202436271998&Going_to_law_school_Proceed_with_cautionAngel the Lawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07902928273488771301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-37727802127750044732009-12-11T22:55:28.568-05:002009-12-11T22:55:28.568-05:00I finished top third. Don't even ask me about...I finished top third. Don't even ask me about first year. I should have quit after first year. But anyone would have thought I remedied first year by getting really good grades after first semester. I did eventually get to the dream BigFirm job--only to be laid off. It's really just a shitty profession.<br />Sometimes, I think that for a brief second that I'm blowing this out of proportion. But really, I'm not. Because more and more people continue to flood the market, we will not recover.... even if the economy does. I work with many people (on a doc review) that graduated with law review, moot court and big firm jobs out of law school... now they are scrounging by on $30/hour for 70 hours a week. There is really no solution.Angel the Lawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07902928273488771301noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-85894155325003782322009-12-11T21:34:26.230-05:002009-12-11T21:34:26.230-05:00Well, mathematically, there will obviously always ...Well, mathematically, there will obviously always be a bottom half, but of course, if something like that were to happen across the board, there would be fewer (and higher quality) people searching for legal jobs.<br /><br />Additionally, it's really 1L grades that matter the most, so employers would still recognize those who made the top half, quarter, etc. after 1L year even if they have a lower rank when they graduate. In fact, at that point, they may not even have to rank students post 1L.Esq. Neverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18248019550876835145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-8338667345021223422009-12-11T21:23:47.941-05:002009-12-11T21:23:47.941-05:00But if the bottom half drop out, then the second q...But if the bottom half drop out, then the second quartile becomes the bottom half. <br /><br />Seems like a problem.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com