tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post6268880070908084148..comments2024-01-09T21:43:06.916-05:00Comments on Esq. Never: The Essential Law School Talking Point: Blame the RecessionEsq. Neverhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18248019550876835145noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-10678690197531577072010-06-15T16:47:44.450-04:002010-06-15T16:47:44.450-04:00Hang your own shingle.Hang your own shingle.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-25527144809991722782010-06-11T15:55:49.564-04:002010-06-11T15:55:49.564-04:00People think a JD helps with non-law positions bec...People think a JD helps with non-law positions because many legislators, politicians and businessmen have law degrees, and law schools rely on that to sucker students in.<br /><br />If you do the research you see these TTT law grads with these jobs and you get suckered into thinking it's the degree that was a credential or helped them land these jobs. That's the beauty of the scam, the research gives you deceptive results, because it is hard to isolate cause and effect, and correlation is such a powerful tool in argument.<br /><br />In reality these people had connections or had these positions in advance and then went to law school afterwards. Of course the law student won't figure that out until afterwards, chances are he has no access to these people to begin with or they might outright law about the value of a degree, for them they can pretend they got value if they really didn't, which they didn't.<br /><br />Law school isn't bad on a full scholarship, especially, but the problem is if there is a GPA to maintain or it's only a partial. I had half scholarships at a 2T myself and planned on quitting after the first year if things didn't got he way I wanted them to. This is, it's hard to quit if you're top third/top 20% and you've already used up that year, even if that was your plan. And it's very hard to get top 5% or so, because everything is so arbitrary really. So you have no guarantee of anything at all, you're basically completely gambling here. A lottery ticket is a better investment, although the chances are lower the debt is non-existent. Sports gambling is even better though than law school, as there are ways to consistently make money if you know what you're doing.<br /><br />Now that I've responded to that, I want to mention how awful it is applying to jobs on usajobs. Most of the applications take forever and you won't get a response. Half of them want you to fax things, which might cost you money or is otherwise annoying to do, and they still won't get back to you. Most won't seriously consider a graduate without years of experience in that certain field. You will spend lots and lots of time for very little chance at actually even seriously being considered. I have been applying for about a year now on and off with no real luck.<br /><br />Forget state work, almost every state is in serious financial trouble and they are cutting employees, not hiring them. The fed can only hire because they just print more money, but it's not like they will hire lower level candidates, they have their pick of the crop and aren't looking to give most people a chance at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-58087745690867340732010-06-11T14:42:44.414-04:002010-06-11T14:42:44.414-04:00Just a question: What exactly is "toilet law...Just a question: What exactly is "toilet law?" It sounds like you are saying there is "Big Law" or "Toilet Law" or "Non-Profit/Public Sector Law" and that's it...am I getting that right?<br /><br />I'm only asking because I will be attending law school (on a scholarship) and would not work in so-called "Big Law." <br /><br />Don't bother telling me not to go to law school--I've weighed everything and am going, at least as long as I maintain the scholarship. <br /><br />And on a side note--why WOULD anyone think that a JD would help with a non-law job? I think anyone who would go to law school based on that (or give that any weight whatsoever) is kind of foolish to begin with. The purpose of a JD is to practice law. Of course a job that gains no benefit form that isn't going to pay a premium for you (or even hire you) based on that! Instead, I'm sure most employers look at that and think that you'll just want more money either now or down the road while a "less educated" applicant will not want as much.<br /><br />Gerald T. StudebakerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-65818858281796322102010-06-10T11:14:02.059-04:002010-06-10T11:14:02.059-04:00Yeah, it's a complete fabrication or self-delu...Yeah, it's a complete fabrication or self-delusion that public sector/government jobs are any easier to get than biglaw. They're just as selective and have just as many (probably more) budget constraints.<br /><br />Everyone trying to get the message out just needs to keep pounding the message that THERE ARE NO JOBS. I've talked to several prospective students who have said things like, "Well, I know big firms are struggling, but that's okay because I can just get a job for the government anyway!"<br /><br />*facepalm*Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-67872039117192425492010-06-09T20:00:59.003-04:002010-06-09T20:00:59.003-04:00Yep, hits the nail on the head.
I especially agre...Yep, hits the nail on the head.<br /><br />I especially agree with the DA and PD's Office points. In the past, it was only "low" to the T14 grads and maybe the top 10% grads in other schools because they had a realistic shot at $150k a year jobs at big law. Of course, many didn't take those jobs because the quality of life is so much better at these DA and PD's Offices. Everyone else didn't really have a realistic shot at these jobs, so to them it wasn't "low" at all. It wasn't a "vow of poverty" because those jobs would actually improve their incomes tremendously in all likelihood.<br /><br />Nowadays it is even more impossible to get those positions. Most offices have not hired anyone, or have very limited hiring for the past 2 years.<br /><br />The economy crashed around 2008, so any 2008 grad that didn't have a job lined up was screwed too. But I've met 2007 grads that have mentioned many of them haven't fared quite that well either, obviously Esqnever has pointed these things out, but people still tend to kind of forget that 2009 and 2010 aren't the only bad years.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-10680289316035686462010-06-09T15:42:42.928-04:002010-06-09T15:42:42.928-04:00I am old enough to have lived through the last yea...I am old enough to have lived through the last years (mid to late '80s) of the Golden Era. It was a great time to be a lawyer. Making $80K a year as a young associate with all the blow and hookers you could ever want made law a very attractive profession. Those days are long gone and geezers like me can only summon a smile by recalling those glorious days. Today, being a lawyer means making difficult decisions to maximize a profit (e.g., layoffs, salary reduction, office space downsizing etc.). I can tell you that when times are good, firms will treat you like family (as long as you make your hours). When the economy is in the shitter, you are a liability and excess fat that must be removed to preserve profits per partner. Many firms recorded slight increases in PPP last year. What irks me is that some people construe this as a sign of recovery. No, the increase was as a result of cutting on wasteful spending (associate layoffs, scaling back summer programs, "wining and dining," flying business class, etc.) and other unnecessary expenses.<br /><br />I was recently asked by my alma mater law school to come speak to the current crop of unsuspecting law students about the great virtues of being a lawyer. I declined citing a scheduling conflict. Truth of the matter is I am disgusted with what law schools are doing to these students. When times were good, even the bottom quarter of the class could gain legal employment. Now it seems even being in the top quarter does not guarantee you a legal job unless you are YHS. When law students at CLS and some at Harvard are having a tough time finding legal employment, it's time to say this profession is not worth the time and money. Indeed, the happy days in this business are gone and are not coming back. Will some attorneys be successful? Sure, but the game got harder and fewer will succeed. As for me, I bought some land in Brazil and will retire in 2 years. This profession has made me a miserable human being but at least I am young enough to enjoy another 20 years on this earth in paradise before I check out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-48168698376392218462010-06-09T09:57:02.722-04:002010-06-09T09:57:02.722-04:00So true. I graduated in 2005 as well and I didn&#...So true. I graduated in 2005 as well and I didn't see any signs of wining and dining grads in my class (TTT, so not to be unexpected.) We were all scared $hit-less, frankly. I wish I had seen Tom the Temp and Calico Cat earlier - I wonder what the alleged "Golden Era" was like.<br /><br />I manged to jump ship into the corporate world after enough interviews. You just have to keep looking until you find someone who thinks what you've done is valuable. It sure as hell wasn't the law firms.dupednontraditionalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04170022654810216357noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-53248009351760607472010-06-09T09:18:44.210-04:002010-06-09T09:18:44.210-04:00EN, I can tell you have had to fend off a barage o...EN, I can tell you have had to fend off a barage of incisive questions from potential employers, because of your JD. And, yet the festering toilets of law keep touting to their victims/students: "You can do anything with a law degree. It is a very versatile asset, even among non-legal employers." THIS IS PATENTLY FALSE - AND THE LAW SCHOOLS KNOW THIS!<br /><br />If the "law professors" want to utter this garbage, it is only fair that they disclose that they have not interviewed for strictly non-legal positions. If they had, they would know that they would need to give a performance on-par with a criminal defendant facing a cross-examination from legendary L.A. County prosecutor Vincent Bugliosi - in order to explain how their JD will help the non-legal employer make money. <br /><br />Keep plugging away at these law school industry fallacies and outright lies.Nandohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06423524039657355134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5618663158161665199.post-84548112775407205812010-06-09T07:46:17.046-04:002010-06-09T07:46:17.046-04:00Wow, your best post ever. The past, present, and ...Wow, your best post ever. The past, present, and future, from bleak, bleaker, to bleakest. You nailed it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com